Tag: WI-38

About those Stanley Plotkin Videos…

Stanley Plotkin is typically described as “a prominent figure in the history of vaccinology, whose work on vaccine development has led to a significant reduction in morbidity and mortality from infectious diseases in the second part of 20th century. “

Why?

For one thing, he developed the rubella vaccine that we still use today.

He also worked on vaccines against CMV, polio, chicken pox, rabies, and rotavirus.

What Did Stanley Plotkin Say While He Was Under Oath?

That’s not why anti-vaccine folks are talking about him these days, or maybe it is…

Mostly, they are misinterpreting comments he made during a videotaped deposition.

“Lori Matheson is fighting her ex-husband, Michael Schmitt, for the right to decide if their two-year-old daughter should be vaccinated.”

Michigan anti-vaccination case to goes to court

A videotaped deposition in a case involving parents who disagreed about vaccinating their daughter…

Even though it isn't his exact quote and anti-vaccine folks don't give you the full context of what he was talking about, it is clear that Dr. Plotkin simply meant that you can't prove a negative.
Even though it isn’t his exact quote and anti-vaccine folks don’t give you the full context of what he was talking about, it is clear that Dr. Plotkin simply meant that you can’t prove a negative.

What do anti-vaccine folks think he said?

“I would say it is logically true that you cannot say, you cannot point to proof that it doesn’t cause autism. ”

Stanley Plotkin, M.D.

No, he isn’t saying that vaccines are associated with autism.

“I could not say that as a, as a scientist or a logician. But I can say as a physician that, no, they do not cause autism, because as a physician, I have to take the whole body of scientific information into consideration when I make a recommendation for a child.”

Stanley Plotkin, M.D.

All he is saying is that you can’t definitively prove a negative.

One of the different things in communicating the fact that there is no link is that science and English are not really the same language. So when a scientist says, “We have no evidence that there’s a link between vaccines and autism,” what they’re really saying is, “We are as positive as someone can humanly be that there’s no link.”
Seth Mnookin explain it well – One of the different things in communicating the fact that there is no link is that science and English are not really the same language. So when a scientist says, “We have no evidence that there’s a link between vaccines and autism,” what they’re really saying is, “We are as positive as someone can humanly be that there’s no link.”

For example, just because I have never seen a black swan, I can’t use that as proof that black swans don’t exist somewhere. After all, I haven’t been everywhere.

“…scientists can be at a real disadvantage in this debate because they, by their nature, are careful in how they present their conclusions.”

Vaccines: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

What else do anti-vaccine folks have a problem with?

Remember the rubella vaccine he developed?

“After a detour to obtain credentials as a pediatrician, I returned to Wistarto work on rubella. Those years were fraught with advances and reverses, controversy and eventually vindication. The pandemic of CRS babies in 1964-65 was an important stimulus to research on the vaccine. “

Stanley Plotkin’s On the Occasion of the Presentation Of The 2002 Albert B. Sabin Gold Medal

During the rubella epidemic of 1964-65, there were 12.5 million rubella virus infections, which “resulted in 11,250 therapeutic or spontaneous abortions, 2,100 neonatal deaths, and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome.”

And that’s just in the United States.

The controversy?

“There were only two fetuses involved in making vaccines. When fetal strains of, fibroblast strains were first developed, I was involved in that work trying to characterize those cells; but they were not used to make vaccines.”

Stanley Plotkin, M.D.

It is well known (this isn’t some shocking truth as some are trying to push) that some vaccines are made with fetal embryo fibroblast cells (the WI-38 and MRC-5 cells) from cell lines that are derived (they can replicate infinitely) from two electively terminated pregnancies (abortions) in the 1960s.

Those two fetuses weren’t the only two fetuses ever used in research though, they were just the only ones used to actually make vaccines.

“Human diploid cell strains (HDCSs) are batches of cells that are currently used for different purposes, including culturing viruses for the manufacturing of vaccines”

A brief history of human diploid cell strains.

They had to get to the point where they knew how to make vaccines in human cell lines though and that’s what he is talking about in the deposition.

“Q. In any event, so we have 76 in this study. Would you approximate it’s been a few hundred fetuses?


A. Oh, no, I don’t think it was that many. Probably not many more than in this paper. And I should stipulate that we had nothing to do with the cause of the abortion.”

It took some experimentation to find the right kind of cells and the right methods, but ultimately, they found that fetal embryo fibroblast cells were the best to use to grow many viruses.

Copies of those same cells are still used today.

What about the other “issues” brought up in the deposition?

Did he experiment on orphans, people who were mentally handicapped, or those who lived in third world countries?

“I don’t remember specifically, but it’s possible. And, again, I repeat that in the 1960s, that was more or less common practice. I’ve since changed my mind. But those were, that was a long time ago.”

Stanley Plotkin, M.D.

Those were different times, but Dr. Plotkin’s vaccine studies weren’t unethical and weren’t like what was done at Willowbrook, in which children were purposely exposed to hepatitis, with the justification that most of them ended up getting it anyway.

Surprisingly, in the early 1970s, there was still some debate about the ethics of doing experiments on children, and as you can see, using ableist language to describe children with a disability.
Surprisingly, in the early 1970s, there was still some debate about the ethics of doing experiments on children, and as you can see, using ableist language to describe children with a disability.

And from those times, experts developed the rules for how things are now done.

Ironically, anti-vaccine folks are pushing this stuff about Plotkin, but don’t understand why leaving kids completely unvaccinated and unprotected in a study is unethical.

“One is morally free to use the vaccine regardless of its historical association with abortion. The reason is that the risk to public health, if one chooses not to vaccinate, outweighs the legitimate concern about the origins of the vaccine. This is especially important for parents, who have a moral obligation to protect the life and health of their children and those around them.”

National Catholic Bioethics Center FAQ on the Use of Vaccines

Or why it’s immoral to push anti-vaccine propaganda or put others at risk to get a vaccine-preventable disease.

“Results indicate that the total number of cases of poliomyelitis, measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, adenovirus, rabies and hepatitis A averted or treated with WI-38 related vaccines was 198 million in the U.S. and 4.5 billion globally (720 million in Africa; 387 million in Latin America and the Caribbean; 2.7 billion in Asia; and 455 million in Europe). The total number of deaths averted from these same diseases was approximately 450,000 in the U.S., and 10.3 million globally (1.6 million in Africa; 886 thousand in Latin America and the Caribbean; 6.2 million in Asia; and 1.0 million in Europe).”

Olshansky et al on The Role of the WI-38 Cell Strain in Saving Lives and Reducing Morbidity

Dr. Plotkin’s work has helped save millions of lives.

“His achievements in vaccinology are on a scale that truly can be measured in lives saved and lives restored.”

On the Occasion of the Presentation Of The 2002 Albert B. Sabin Gold Medal

And that’s why anti-vaccine folks are attacking him.

More on Stanley Plotkin

What Do Anti-Vaccine Folks Actually Know About Vaccines?

Anti-vaccine folks are spreading another quiz around…

It’s not the questions that automatically makes you think the quiz is anti-vaccine though. It’s how you just know anti-vaccine answers will be very different from someone who actually does know something about vaccines.

What Do Anti-Vaccine Folks Actually Know About Vaccines?

If you are anti-vaccine, you likely believe that vaccines are dangerous, full of toxins, and that they don’t even work. That gives other folks a giant hint as to how you would answer these 32 questions…

1. Can you name 5 vaccine ingredients?
Yes. I can also name what’s not in vaccines, including heavy metals, hidden ingredients, toxins, antifreeze, lead, glyphosate, vaginal spermicides, etc.
AV answerall vaccines contain toxic ingredients!
2/3. What is MRC-5/WI-38?
These are immortalized cell lines that are used to make some vaccines. These cell lines are derived (they can replicate infinitely) from fetal embryo fibroblast cells from two electively terminated pregnancies (abortions) in the 1960s. The cells used today are descendants of the original cells.
AV answerthere are aborted baby parts in our vaccines!
4. What is vaccine court?
The Vaccine Court is part of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) and decides if the claims should be compensated or dismissed, etc.
AV answervaccine court proves that vaccine injuries are real.
5. What is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) was created as “a no-fault alternative to the traditional legal system for resolving vaccine injury petitions.”
AV answerthe National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) proves that vaccine injuries are real.
6. What is the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act?
The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 established the VICP, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund, the National Vaccine Program Office, VAERS, and required that health care providers give a Vaccine Information Statement to anyone getting a vaccine.
AV answerthe 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act should be repealed because it removed all liability from vaccine manufacturers.
7. How has the CDC schedule changed since 1986?
The immunization schedule has changed to include vaccines to protect kids against meningitis, pneumonia, blood infections, severe dehydration, epiglottitis, and cancer from Hib, pneumococcal disease, rotavirus, hepatitis B, hepatitis A, chicken pox, HPV, and meningococcal disease.
AV answerit has ballooned and exploded with 300 more vaccines in the pipeline!
8. How much money has been paid out by vaccine injury court?
Since the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program began, in 1988, almost $3.5 billion dollars have been paid out for 4,899 compensated awards, the majority of which were settled, and during which time over 2.5 billion doses of vaccines were given.
AV answer$3.5 billion dollars, which proves that vaccine injuries are real!
9. How many doses of vaccines are in the CDC schedule between birth and age 18?
By age 18 years, today’s kids get 54 doses of 13 vaccines that protect them against 16 vaccine-preventable diseases, with a third of those doses coming from yearly flu vaccines.
AV answer72 doses!
10. Do vaccines contain DNA from aborted fetal cell lines? If so, which vaccines?
Residual, highly fragmented DNA is sometimes found in vaccines that are made using the MRC-5/WI-38 cell lines.
AV answervaccines contain aborted fetal tissue.
11. Do any vaccines contain dog, monkey, pig, or human DNA?
Residual DNA, if found in vaccines, is not a cause for concern. It is typically a function of growing vaccine viruses in mammalian cell lines.
AV answerdog, monkey, pig, and human DNA contaminate vaccines and will turn us all into mutant dog-monkey-pig-human hybrids.
12. What is an adjuvant?
An adjuvant in a vaccine can increase the body’s immune response to an antigen, allowing you to use a smaller amount of antigen, which is important, as it is the antigens that typically cause side effects.
AV answerAdjuvants in vaccines have never been tested and they trigger vaccine injuries and disease.
13. What is an antigen?
An antigen is a substance, often part of a virus or bacteria, that can stimulate an immune response and the production of antibodies. Surprisingly, even though kids get more vaccines than they used to, those vaccines contain far fewer antigens than older vaccines.
AV answerwe don’t care about antigens anymore, because all of the other vaccine ingredients are toxic.
14. Which arms of the immune system do vaccines stimulate?
It actually depends on the vaccine, but this is about the differences between innate (nonspecific and without memory) and adaptive immunity, which typically interact with each other, whether it is to create natural or vaccine induced immunity.
AV answerI don’t care which arm you try to give it to them, my kids aren’t getting vaccinated!
15. Which arms of the immune system do natural diseases stimulate?
As with vaccines, it depends on the disease.
AV answerEven if you offer to give the shot in their legs, my kids aren’t getting vaccinated!
16. What is transverse myelitis?
Transverse myelitis is a type of inflammation of the spinal cord, causing weakness and paralysis, and typically triggered by infections, immune system, inflammatory, and vascular disorders.
AV answertransverse myelitis is a vaccine injury.
17. What is encephalopathy?
Almost anything can cause encephalopathy, leading to diffuse brain disease and dysfunction.
AV answerencephalopathy is a vaccine injury.
18. What is the rate of autism in 2018? What was it in 2000? What was it in 1980?
The reported rate of autism has increased since 1980 because of better recognition, diagnostic substitution, broadening of the diagnostic criteria, and social influences. Vaccines are not associated with autism.
AV answervaccines cause autism. If it isn’t the MMR vaccine, then it is thimerosal, or maybe aluminum. Or it could be glyphosate. It is definitely vaccines though.
19. What is glyphosate? Is it in vaccines?
Glyphosate, a weed killer (Roundup) made by Monsanto is not in any vaccines.
AV answerbecause glyphosate is everywhere, including in vaccines, half of all children will be autistic by 2025.
20. If your child is injured who will take physical, emotional and financial responsibility?
If a child has a true vaccine injury, compensation from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) will hopefully help with your financial responsibilities.
AV answeryou can not sue vaccine manufacturers, so they have no liability if your child is injured by a vaccine.
21. What was the Supreme Courts statement on vaccines in 2011?
In 2011, the Supreme Court decided Bruesewitz v. Wyeth, in which they used the infamous unavoidably unsafe terminology, which has been misunderstood by anti-vaccine folks ever since.
AV answerthe Supreme Court said that vaccines can never be safe.
22. Can you find a study showing vaccinated vs unvaccinated health outcomes?
Yes, yes I can. A large study, “Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents Findings of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS),” found that unvaccinated kids weren’t healthier, they just had more measles, mumps, rubella, and pertussis.
AV answerthe Mawson study (published in a pay-to-publish journal after being retracted two other times) proves that unvaccinated (homeschooled) kids are healthier than vaccinated (homeschooled) kids.
23. Can you find a safety study proving it is safe to inject multiple vaccines?
Yes, yes I can. There are many studies that prove that it is safe to give multiple vaccines at the same time.
AV answervaccines have never been tested together.
24. Do vaccines shed?
A few vaccines do shed, including the rotavirus vaccines (in stool, so wash your hands when changing diapers) and oral polio vaccines, which haven’t been used in the United States since 2000. Although FluMist can shed, since the vaccine contains attenuated viral strains of the flu that are temperature-sensitive, it isn’t a problem, except maybe for someone who is severely immunocompromised.
AV answerour unvaccinated kids are at risk during shedding season!
25. Which vaccines can shed for up to 6 weeks?
The oral polio vaccine, which hasn’t been used in the United States since 2000, can likely shed for up to 6 weeks. This type of shedding is one of the reasons this weakened live virus vaccine is preferred over the inactivated polio vaccine when polio is still common in an area. In areas with poor hygiene and sanitation, the shedding (in stool) can lead to a type of passive immunization and improved herd immunity!
AV answershedding season is coming!
26. Which vaccines are live virus vaccines?
Attenuated, live virus vaccines which contain a weakened version of a virus include MMR, Varivax (chicken pox), the rotavirus vaccines, FluMist, the yellow fever vaccines, the oral polio vaccine, and vaccines against typhoid, cholera, adenovirus, and smallpox.
AV answerunvaccinated children are at risk from shedding if they are around kids who have gotten a live virus vaccine, especially during shedding season.
27. What is the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)?
This is the same thing as the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) in question 5…
AV answerwe need to repeal both the NVICP and the VICP!
28. What is SV40?
Simian virus 40 was found to contaminate polio vaccines from 1955 through 1963. Fortunately, it has not been found to cause any disease in the folks who got those vaccines.
AV answervaccines are contaminated with monkey viruses and cause cancer.
29. What is MTHFR and how does it affect the body’s response to vaccines?
True MTHFR gene mutations rarely cause homocystinuria. Folks are more likely to hear about MTHFR polymorphisms, which are typically normal and have no affect on vaccines or anything else.
AV answerno one should not get vaccinated if they have MTHFR mutations or signs of MTHFR.
30. What is an acceptable amount of aluminum to be ingested per day versus the aluminum content in the Hep B shot given at birth, 2 months, and then again at 4 months?
Although there are limits on aluminum that premature neonates and infants getting daily intravenous fluids and IV feeding solutions over prolonged periods of time, that doesn’t mean that aluminum in vaccines that infants get every few months isn’t safe. It is. And they are.
AV answerinfants are getting toxic amounts of aluminum in their vaccines!
31. Can someone who was vaccinated for pertussis still spread pertussis after being exposed to it? If so, for how long?
Maybe. A study in baboons said it is possible. More importantly though, you are much more likely to get pertussis if you are unvaccinated, will have more severe symptoms, and will likely get more people sick.
AV answervaccinated people are the ones starting pertussis outbreaks.
32. What is the death rate from measles in the past 10 years in the U.S. compared to the death rate from the MMR vaccine in the past 10 years?
Deaths from measles are now rare in the United States because most people are vaccinated and protected. And unless you are looking at VAERS reports, the deaths from the MMR vaccine are also very rare. We will have more and more measles outbreaks if folks don’t get vaccinated though, increasing the risk of another measles death.
AV answermeasles is a mild disease that was on the Brady Bunch, and MMR is an unnecessary vaccine kills tons of people.

How did you answer the questions?

What Do Anti-Vaccine Folks Actually Know About Vaccines?

Which Vaccines Contain Aborted Baby Parts?

If you are already on the fence about vaccines, there are probably some you want to avoid…

For many parents, that likely means skipping all of the vaccines with aborted baby parts and fetal tissue.

Which Vaccines Contain Aborted Baby Parts?

Do vaccines really contain aborted baby parts and fetal tissue?

“Have you read the CDC’s vaccine ingredient list? Why would they list aborted baby parts as ingredients if they weren’t actually in vaccines? Just because there’s only a little baking soda in a cake doesn’t mean it’s not in there. In fact, a little baking soda can have quite the effect on a cake and the person eating it. If it’s on the label, it’s in the vaccine.”

Megan Heimer on What You Didn’t Know About the Aborted Baby Parts in Your Vaccines

Are you surprised that the CDC’s vaccine ingredient list doesn’t list aborted baby parts as ingredients of any vaccines?

It does list:

  • WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblast cells
  • MRC-5 human diploid cells

But cells are not tissues or body parts…

Cells make up tissues and tissues make up body parts, but that doesn’t sound as scary, does it?

“Given that many vaccines use aborted fetal cell tissue (where a viable fetus was medically and voluntarily aborted, not miscarried), there is clearly a valid, religious argument for not submitting to these shots.”

Sarah Pope on How to Resist Pediatrician Pro Vaccination Tactics

Immortalized cell lines, like the WI-38 and MRC-5 cell lines, even lose their tissue characteristics.

This type of anti-vaccine propaganda is likely why so many anti-vaccine folks still think that aborted baby parts and fetal tissue are ingredients in vaccines.

The Pontifical Academy for Life reaffirmed the "lawfulness" of using vaccines to protect children and those around them.
The Pontifical Academy for Life reaffirmed the “lawfulness” of using vaccines to protect children and those around them.

They aren’t. Not in any vaccine.

Some vaccines are made with fetal embryo fibroblast cells (the WI-38 and MRC-5 cells) from cell lines that are derived (they can replicate infinitely) from two electively terminated pregnancies (abortions) in the 1960s. That certainly does not mean that any vaccines contain aborted fetal tissue or baby parts though.

Those original cells aren’t even involved in making these vaccines any more.

The cells used today have been copied, over and over again. They are descendant cells, which is why a common way to explain all of this, is to say that vaccines are said to have a “distant association with abortion.”

And even then, the cells are removed before the final vaccine is produced.

That’s why the National Catholic Bioethics Center states that that:

“One is morally free to use the vaccine regardless of its historical association with abortion. The reason is that the risk to public health, if one chooses not to vaccinate, outweighs the legitimate concern about the origins of the vaccine. This is especially important for parents, who have a moral obligation to protect the life and health of their children and those around them.”

And why it is said that Catholics are “morally free to use the vaccine regardless of its historical association with abortion” and that “it should be obvious that vaccine use in these cases does not contribute directly to the practice of abortion since the reasons for having an abortion are not related to vaccine preparation.”

What To Know About Vaccines, Abortion & Fetal Tissue

Vaccines are safe and necessary and do not contain aborted fetal tissue or body parts, although some do have a distant association with abortion.

More on Vaccines, Abortion & Fetal Tissue

The Catholic Church and Vaccines

We hear a lot about the Catholic Church and vaccines.

The Catholic Church teaches that it is lawful to get vaccinated to protect
The Catholic Church teaches that it is lawful to get vaccinated to protect “our children, public health, and the common good.” The National Catholic Bioethics Center

Maybe it is because Pope Francis led a polio vaccine campaign when he visited Mexico.

Pope Francis helped launch a polio vaccine campaign when he visited Mexico in 2016.
Pope Francis helped launch a polio vaccine campaign when he visited Mexico in 2016.

Or because Pope Francis thanked members of the Rotary International during an Audience at the Vatican, where the Pope “emphasized the importance of vaccinations against polio and urged Rotary to continue.”

History of the Catholic Church and Vaccines

Pope Francis isn’t the first Pope to promote vaccination.

Way back in the early 1800s, Pope Pius VII said the smallpox vaccine was “a precious discovery which ought to be a new motive for human gratitude to Omnipotence.”

But wasn’t there an anti-vaccine pope too?

Some claimed that Pope Leo XII had said that “Whoever allows himself to be vaccinated ceases to be a child of God. Smallpox is a judgment of God, the vaccination is a challenge toward heaven.

He didn’t say it though – the anti-vax edict from the Pope was imaginary!

There was no anti-vaccine pope.

Endorsement of vaccination by the Catholic Church had started long before the smallpox vaccine. As early as the 1720s, Jesuits were inoculating Indians in the Amazon against smallpox.

Other noteworthy events in the history of the Catholic Church related to vaccines include:

  • 1757 – Pope Benedict XIV was inoculated against smallpox
  • 1780s – introduction of public vaccinations by the archbishop of Bamberg, Germany
  • 1821 – Council of Vaccination
  • 1800s – priests routinely led processions of people to get vaccinated against smallpox
  • 1862 – Catholic missionaries vaccinated the Quwutsun in the Pacific Northwest

Sean Phillips, in examining the records of the Osler Library, has also found “a story of close cooperation between clergy and the state from the earliest stages of the vaccine in France…” That was important, because when smallpox epidemics were raging, the clergy functioned “as a conduit between the medical community and the majority of cities, towns, and communes in France throughout the nineteenth century.”

Vaccines and Abortion

Of course, one of the main reasons that vaccines and the Catholic Church comes up at all is because of abortion.

The Pontifical Academy for Life reaffirmed the "lawfulness" of using vaccines to protect children and those around them.
The Pontifical Academy for Life reaffirmed the “lawfulness” of using vaccines to protect children and those around them.

What does abortion have to do with vaccines?

While much of what you hear about abortion and vaccines isn’t true, some of it is:

  • Vaccines do not contain aborted fetal tissue.
  • Some vaccines are made in cell lines that originated from fetuses that were aborted over 40 years ago.
  • These vaccines are made in descendent cells from either the WI-38 and MRC-5 cell lines, which have been duplicated over and over again and are grown independently. So, “it is important to note that descendent cells are not the cells of the aborted child.”
  • The descendent cells don’t remain in the final vaccine after it has been purified.

It should be clear now why they say that these vaccines are said to have a “distant association with abortion.”

“For its part, Catholic social teaching entails a duty to vaccinate in order to protect the vulnerable.”

Paul J. Carson on Catholic Social Teaching and the Duty to Vaccinate

And why it is said that Catholics are “morally free to use the vaccine regardless of its historical association with abortion” and that “it should be obvious that vaccine use in these cases does not contribute directly to the practice of abortion since the reasons for having an abortion are not related to vaccine preparation.”

“Since there is no Catholic teaching that the use of these vaccines is sinful, schools cannot allow Catholic parents to claim a religious exemption from the requirement of immunization.”

National Catholic Bioethics Center on Vaccines and Exemptions Granted by Schools

Catholics can seek an alternative vaccine when available and “register a complaint with the manufacturer of the products as an acceptable form of conscientious objection,” but the The National Catholic Bioethics Center states that “there is no moral obligation to register such a complaint in order to use these vaccines.”

Not only are we morally free to get vaccinated and vaccinate our kids, but the National Catholic Bioethics Center says that parents actually “have a moral obligation to protect the life and health of their children and those around them.”

What to Know About the Catholic Church and Vaccines

From measles to HPV, the Catholic Church recommends that your family be vaccinated and protected.

More About the Catholic Church and Vaccines

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