When You Ask for Vaccine Advice in an Anti-Vaccine Facebook Group…
While most of us are used to hearing about meningococcal meningitis being a big risk for teens and young adults, it is important to realize that rates of disease are also high for infants, with a second peak during adolescence.
So why don’t we routinely vaccinate infants against meningococcal disease?
Many countries do, including Australia and the UK, and in the United States, high risk infants are vaccinated against meningococcal disease.
If you were on the fence but were advised by your paediatrician (Australian spelling) to get vaccinated and protected because a child in your town had just died, would you get vaccinated?
We know what happens when you ask for vaccine advice in an anti-vaccine Facebook group. The members push their propaganda to scare you away from vaccinating and protecting your kids.
Don’t listen to them. Vaccines are safe and necessary.
More on When You Ask for Vaccine Advice in an Anti-Vaccine Facebook Group…
What Do Anti-Vaccine Folks Actually Know About Vaccines?
If you are anti-vaccine, you likely believe that vaccines are dangerous, full of toxins, and that they don’t even work. That gives other folks a giant hint as to how you would answer these 32 questions…
AV answer – all vaccines contain toxic ingredients!
2/3. What is MRC-5/WI-38?
These are immortalized cell lines that are used to make some vaccines. These cell lines are derived (they can replicate infinitely) from fetal embryo fibroblast cells from two electively terminated pregnancies (abortions) in the 1960s. The cells used today are descendants of the original cells.
AV answer – there are aborted baby parts in our vaccines!
4. What is vaccine court?
The Vaccine Court is part of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) and decides if the claims should be compensated or dismissed, etc.
AV answer – vaccine court proves that vaccine injuries are real.
5. What is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?
AV answer – the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) proves that vaccine injuries are real.
6. What is the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act?
The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 established the VICP, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund, the National Vaccine Program Office, VAERS, and required that health care providers give a Vaccine Information Statement to anyone getting a vaccine.
AV answer – the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act should be repealed because it removed all liability from vaccine manufacturers.
7. How has the CDC schedule changed since 1986?
The immunization schedule has changed to include vaccines to protect kids against meningitis, pneumonia, blood infections, severe dehydration, epiglottitis, and cancer from Hib, pneumococcal disease, rotavirus, hepatitis B, hepatitis A, chicken pox, HPV, and meningococcal disease.
AV answer – it has ballooned and exploded with 300 more vaccines in the pipeline!
8. How much money has been paid out by vaccine injury court?
Since the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program began, in 1988, almost $3.5 billion dollars have been paid out for 4,899 compensated awards, the majority of which were settled, and during which time over 2.5 billion doses of vaccines were given.
AV answer – $3.5 billion dollars, which proves that vaccine injuries are real!
9. How many doses of vaccines are in the CDC schedule between birth and age 18?
By age 18 years, today’s kids get 54 doses of 13 vaccines that protect them against 16 vaccine-preventable diseases, with a third of those doses coming from yearly flu vaccines.
AV answer – 72 doses!
10. Do vaccines contain DNA from aborted fetal cell lines? If so, which vaccines?
Residual, highly fragmented DNA is sometimes found in vaccines that are made using the MRC-5/WI-38 cell lines.
AV answer – vaccines contain aborted fetal tissue.
11. Do any vaccines contain dog, monkey, pig, or human DNA?
Residual DNA, if found in vaccines, is not a cause for concern. It is typically a function of growing vaccine viruses in mammalian cell lines.
AV answer – dog, monkey, pig, and human DNA contaminate vaccines and will turn us all into mutant dog-monkey-pig-human hybrids.
12. What is an adjuvant?
An adjuvant in a vaccine can increase the body’s immune response to an antigen, allowing you to use a smaller amount of antigen, which is important, as it is the antigens that typically cause side effects.
AV answer – Adjuvants in vaccines have never been tested and they trigger vaccine injuries and disease.
13. What is an antigen?
An antigen is a substance, often part of a virus or bacteria, that can stimulate an immune response and the production of antibodies. Surprisingly, even though kids get more vaccines than they used to, those vaccines contain far fewer antigens than older vaccines.
AV answer – we don’t care about antigens anymore, because all of the other vaccine ingredients are toxic.
14. Which arms of the immune system do vaccines stimulate?
It actually depends on the vaccine, but this is about the differences between innate (nonspecific and without memory) and adaptive immunity, which typically interact with each other, whether it is to create natural or vaccine induced immunity.
AV answer – I don’t care which arm you try to give it to them, my kids aren’t getting vaccinated!
15. Which arms of the immune system do natural diseases stimulate?
AV answer – Even if you offer to give the shot in their legs, my kids aren’t getting vaccinated!
16. What is transverse myelitis?
Transverse myelitis is a type of inflammation of the spinal cord, causing weakness and paralysis, and typically triggered by infections, immune system, inflammatory, and vascular disorders.
AV answer – transverse myelitis is a vaccine injury.
17. What is encephalopathy?
Almost anything can cause encephalopathy, leading to diffuse brain disease and dysfunction.
AV answer – encephalopathy is a vaccine injury.
18. What is the rate of autism in 2018? What was it in 2000? What was it in 1980?
AV answer – vaccines cause autism. If it isn’t the MMR vaccine, then it is thimerosal, or maybe aluminum. Or it could be glyphosate. It is definitely vaccines though.
19. What is glyphosate? Is it in vaccines?
Glyphosate, a weed killer (Roundup) made by Monsanto is not in any vaccines.
AV answer – because glyphosate is everywhere, including in vaccines, half of all children will be autistic by 2025.
20. If your child is injured who will take physical, emotional and financial responsibility?
If a child has a true vaccine injury, compensation from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) will hopefully help with your financial responsibilities.
AV answer – you can not sue vaccine manufacturers, so they have no liability if your child is injured by a vaccine.
21. What was the Supreme Courts statement on vaccines in 2011?
In 2011, the Supreme Court decided Bruesewitz v. Wyeth, in which they used the infamous unavoidably unsafe terminology, which has been misunderstood by anti-vaccine folks ever since.
AV answer – the Supreme Court said that vaccines can never be safe.
22. Can you find a study showing vaccinated vs unvaccinated health outcomes?
Yes, yes I can. A large study, “Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents Findings of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS),” found that unvaccinated kids weren’t healthier, they just had more measles, mumps, rubella, and pertussis.
AV answer – the Mawson study (published in a pay-to-publish journal after being retracted two other times) proves that unvaccinated (homeschooled) kids are healthier than vaccinated (homeschooled) kids.
23. Can you find a safety study proving it is safe to inject multiple vaccines?
Yes, yes I can. There are many studies that prove that it is safe to give multiple vaccines at the same time.
AV answer – vaccines have never been tested together.
24. Do vaccines shed?
A few vaccines do shed, including the rotavirus vaccines (in stool, so wash your hands when changing diapers) and oral polio vaccines, which haven’t been used in the United States since 2000. Although FluMist can shed, since the vaccine contains attenuated viral strains of the flu that are temperature-sensitive, it isn’t a problem, except maybe for someone who is severely immunocompromised.
AV answer – our unvaccinated kids are at risk during shedding season!
25. Which vaccines can shed for up to 6 weeks?
The oral polio vaccine, which hasn’t been used in the United States since 2000, can likely shed for up to 6 weeks. This type of shedding is one of the reasons this weakened live virus vaccine is preferred over the inactivated polio vaccine when polio is still common in an area. In areas with poor hygiene and sanitation, the shedding (in stool) can lead to a type of passive immunization and improved herd immunity!
AV answer – shedding season is coming!
26. Which vaccines are live virus vaccines?
Attenuated, live virus vaccines which contain a weakened version of a virus include MMR, Varivax (chicken pox), the rotavirus vaccines, FluMist, the yellow fever vaccines, the oral polio vaccine, and vaccines against typhoid, cholera, adenovirus, and smallpox.
AV answer – unvaccinated children are at risk from shedding if they are around kids who have gotten a live virus vaccine, especially during shedding season.
27. What is the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)?
This is the same thing as the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) in question 5…
AV answer – we need to repeal both the NVICP and the VICP!
28. What is SV40?
Simian virus 40 was found to contaminate polio vaccines from 1955 through 1963. Fortunately, it has not been found to cause any disease in the folks who got those vaccines.
AV answer – vaccines are contaminated with monkey viruses and cause cancer.
29. What is MTHFR and how does it affect the body’s response to vaccines?
True MTHFR gene mutations rarely cause homocystinuria. Folks are more likely to hear about MTHFR polymorphisms, which are typically normal and have no affect on vaccines or anything else.
AV answer – no one should not get vaccinated if they have MTHFR mutations or signs of MTHFR.
30. What is an acceptable amount of aluminum to be ingested per day versus the aluminum content in the Hep B shot given at birth, 2 months, and then again at 4 months?
Although there are limits on aluminum that premature neonates and infants getting daily intravenous fluids and IV feeding solutions over prolonged periods of time, that doesn’t mean that aluminum in vaccines that infants get every few months isn’t safe. It is. And they are.
AV answer – infants are getting toxic amounts of aluminum in their vaccines!
31. Can someone who was vaccinated for pertussis still spread pertussis after being exposed to it? If so, for how long?
Maybe. A study in baboons said it is possible. More importantly though, you are much more likely to get pertussis if you are unvaccinated, will have more severe symptoms, and will likely get more people sick.
AV answer – vaccinated people are the ones starting pertussis outbreaks.
32. What is the death rate from measles in the past 10 years in the U.S. compared to the death rate from the MMR vaccine in the past 10 years?
We don’t usually know what causes Bell’s Palsy, so that makes it a perfect candidate for some people to think it’s a vaccine injury.
Mercola cites a study that looked at VAERS reports, so none of the cases were verified to see if they were actually caused by a vaccine. And he fails to mention all of the real studies that found no association between vaccines and Bell’s Palsy!
Although we may not always know what causes it, Bell’s Palsy is fairly easy to diagnose.
“Bell’s palsy is a nerve problem that affects the muscles of your face. It causes weakness or partial paralysis of the muscles on one side of your face. With Bell’s palsy, your eyelid may not close properly and your smile may seem uneven.”
What Is Bell’s Palsy?
So what causes it?
“Bell’s palsy occurs when the nerve that controls the facial muscles is swollen, inflamed, or compressed, resulting in facial weakness or paralysis. Exactly what causes this damage, however, is unknown.”
Bell’s Palsy Fact Sheet
Most experts think that Bell’s Palsy is caused by a viral infection, which leads to swelling and inflammation of the facial nerve. That’s likely why steroids and antiviral medications, like acyclovir, are often helpful treatments.
“The prognosis for individuals with Bell’s palsy is generally very good. The extent of nerve damage determines the extent of recovery. Improvement is gradual and recovery times vary. With or without treatment, most individuals begin to get better within 2 weeks after the initial onset of symptoms and most recover completely, returning to normal function within 3 to 6 months.”
Bell’s Palsy Fact Sheet
Fortunately, most people with Bell’s Palsy, which mainly affects adults, get better.
Do Vaccines Cause Bell’s Palsy?
Bell’s Palsy was first described by Sir Charles Bell in 1821.
There are reported cases before that though, with the earliest by Cornelis Stalpart van der Wiel (1620-1702) from The Hague, The Netherlands in 1683.
That’s not to say that vaccines couldn’t cause Bell’s Palsy.
One vaccine, an inactivated intranasal influenza vaccine that was only used in Switzerland during the 2000-01 flu season, was associated with an increased risk of Bell’s Palsy.
Why? It was likely because of the enzymatically active Escherichia coli Heat Labile Toxin (LT) adjuvant that was used in the vaccine, which is not something you find in any of the vaccines we now use.
While you might find an occasional case report about a vaccine and Bell’s Palsy, remember that a case report published about one patient isn’t strong evidence that it wasn’t a coincidence.
It should be reassuring to everyone that plenty of studies have been done confirming that other vaccines we use do not cause Bell’s Palsy. And even in the case of that flu vaccine, the association was quickly discovered and the vaccine was discontinued.
In fact, since vaccines, especially the chicken pox vaccine and Tdap, can prevent infections that actually cause Bell’s Palsy, if you are worried about Bell’s Palsy, get vaccinated!
Consider what a group of anti-vaccine folks did with the above post about a child with severe complications to a chicken pox infection…
It’s always a vaccine injury…
What are some of the big complications of chicken pox infections? Complications that help make chicken pox deadly?
That’s right, secondary skin and soft tissue bacterial infections (cellulitis and necrotizing fasciitis). In fact, bacterial super-infections of the skin are the most common complication of chicken pox infections.
“Necrotizing fasciitis can lead to sepsis, shock, and organ failure. It can also result in life-long complications from loss of limbs or severe scarring due to surgically removing infected tissue. Even with treatment, up to 1 in 3 people with necrotizing fasciitis die from the infection.”
Necrotizing Fasciitis: All You Need to Know
No, chicken pox is not necrotizing fasciitis, but all of the breaks in the skin from chicken pox lesions give bacteria, including group A Streptococcus (group A strep) and Staphylococcus aureus, plenty of opportunities to enter a child’s body and quickly spread.
No one in the Netherlands dies with chicken pox???
We often hear that chicken pox isn’t serious in other countries that don’t routinely use the chicken pox vaccine. Don’t believe them.
On average, about two young children die in the Netherlands each year due to chicken pox.
“Based on the results presented in this study we estimate that between 3 to 8% of all Dutch patients with varicella, depending on age, consult a GP due to a complication. Our findings are similar to data from Germany, France and the United States of America, were it is estimated that in approximately 2 to 6% of cases attending a general practice. Furthermore of these varicella patients 1.7% experiences complications severe enough to seek hospital care.”
Pierik et al on Epidemiological characteristics and societal burden of varicella zoster virus in the Netherlands
And folks in the Netherlands have similar rates of complications as we did in the United States in the pre-vaccine era and many are hospitalized.
Do you understand what’s happening in these comments? When folks choose to skip or delay their child’s vaccines, they will work hard to justify their decision.
Escaping cognitive dissonance explains a lot of anti-vaccine arguments.
That’s not surprising.
“the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.”
cognitive dissonance definition
If you aren’t going to vaccinate your kids, do you want to think that you are leaving them at risk for such a serious complication, even if it is rare, or will you make up reasons for why the story can’t possibly be true?
Larry Cook is either one of the movers and shakers of the modern anti-vaccine movement, with his Stop Mandatory Vaccine group, a ‘double agent’ who worked to oppose a vaccine law in California, while also lobbying for the law, or someone who other anti-vax folks claims “puts his own profit far ahead of our children.”
Who is Larry Cook?
Larry Cook says that he has devoted himself to natural living for over 25 years.
“I studied video production and photography at Clover Park Vocational-Technical Institute in Tacoma, Washington and I received my bachelor’s degree from The Evergreen State College in Olympia, WA.”
From developing natural living magazines and self-publishing a book about ADHD, he became the Executive Director of the California Naturopathic Doctors Association, a position he held for four years.
He resigned in 2016 to devote his time to “educating” folks about vaccines.
“Finally, I believe my mission is to educate as many parents and others as possible about the dangers of vaccination, the lack of efficacy of vaccination, and why natural immunity is superior to vaccination.”
He even has a GoFundMe page to support his mission…
A mission to take advantage of and profile parents who think that their kids have been vaccine injured? Who he thinks have been vaccine injured, even when the parents don’t.
How did he get started in his quest to save children from vaccines, which he believes are a “200 year old mistake?”
“In late March or early April, 2015, Mr. Cook started a GoFundMe campaign to produce short films, interviews with parents who felt their children had been damaged by vaccines, in order to share those stories with legislators and the general public to build opposition to SB277.”
ConspiraSea, SB277, Colin McRoberts, Larry Cook, and Me
Of course, SB277 passed, and Larry Cook soon left his job as Executive Director of the California Naturopathic Doctors Association, with a new career and salary from his GoFundMe donations.
Why are anti-vax folks always participating in and promoting “free” online summits? They never disclose that they are making money from them, but they usually are.
I guess his campaign went well, at least for him.
It turned into a full time job.
“A video I wish I didn’t have to make. When I started in this movement, I had no idea it would be as corrupt as pharma.
But I have had my eyes opened many times over…this video describes just one of many disappointments along the way: Larry Cook, who runs a popular page and group.
In the beginning, I believed what he told me and tried to look past the many odd comments and strange behaviors. But it ultimately became clear that he puts his own profit far ahead of our children.
That in and of itself wasn’t enough to motivate me to speak out and open myself up to the hundreds of attacks I would get, I kept hoping the truth would be exposed by someone else. And while some have tried, the past couple of weeks I have seen too much to stay silent any longer.”
Unfortunately, they aren’t critical of his extreme views, including that vaccines are “filled with poison” (they aren’t), are “unnecessary” (they are very necessary if you want to avoid life-threatening vaccine preventable diseases), don’t work (they do work), and that outbreaks are a “manufactured problem” (what???).
And there are also ethical issues around spreading misinformation and propaganda about vaccines (misinformed consent) to scare people away from getting vaccinated and protected.
Ethics and Vaccines
Does it surprise you that many folks don’t actually understand what the real ethical issues are in the “vaccine debate?”
Questions about ethics often come up when Dr. Bob talks about vaccines.
Remember, a vaccine mandate that says you have to be vaccinated to attend daycare or school does not force anyone to get vaccinated. Folks still have a choice to not get vaccinated, even without access to non-medical vaccine exemptions, although they might not like what that choice entails, such as homeschooling or not being able to attend daycare or summer camp.
What about the idea of community responsibility?
Should you vaccinate your child just to protect everyone else in the community or should you just try to hide in the herd?
“One is morally free to use the vaccine regardless of its historical association with abortion. The reason is that the risk to public health, if one chooses not to vaccinate, outweighs the legitimate concern about the origins of the vaccine. This is especially important for parents, who have a moral obligation to protect the life and health of their children and those around them.”
The National Catholic Bioethics Center FAQ on the Use of Vaccines
Of course you should vaccinate them. But in getting them vaccinated and protected, you are not just protecting everyone else in the community. Getting vaccinated also protects your own child!
Similarly, when you skip or delay your child’s vaccines, it is not just your own child that is put at risk. If they get sick, especially since many vaccine-preventable diseases have long incubation periods and you can be contagious before you show symptoms, they can expose others and get them sick too. Where’s their choice?
If the people they expose are too young to be vaccinated, too young to be fully vaccinated and protected, or anyone with a problem with their immune system, the results can be tragic.
Is it ethical that someone decides to skip or delay their child’s vaccines and then, through no fault of their own, someone else dies after getting exposed to this unvaccinated child when they develop measles or chicken pox?
Remember the measles outbreaks of 2015? In addition to the large Disney Land measles outbreak, 2015 was infamous for a smaller outbreak in Clallam County.
“The death of a Clallam County woman this spring was due to an undetected measles infection that was discovered at autopsy. The woman was most likely exposed to measles at a local medical facility during a recent outbreak in Clallam County. She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles. The woman had several other health conditions and was on medications that contributed to a suppressed immune system. She didn’t have some of the common symptoms of measles such as a rash, so the infection wasn’t discovered until after her death. The cause of death was pneumonia due to measles. This tragic situation illustrates the importance of immunizing as many people as possible to provide a high level of community protection against measles.”
Measles led to death of Clallam Co. woman
There were five measles cases in that 2015 Clallam County, Washington outbreak, including four who were not vaccinated. The outbreak cost at least $223,223 to contain and led to the death of a woman who just happened to be at a health clinic as one of the infected people.
Want to dismiss this case as being too rare to worry about? Just look at what is happening across Europe, with the rise in measles cases and measles deaths over the last few years.
Ethically, why should you vaccinate?
That’s easy, so that your kids don’t get a life-threatening vaccine-preventable disease. And so that they don’t expose others, potentially giving them a life-threatening disease that they are too young to be vaccinated against, couldn’t be vaccinated against because they had a true medical exemption, or were vaccinated against but are still susceptible to because they now have a problem with their immune system.
Are vaccine preventable diseases not common enough for you to be concerned about these days? You know that’s because most folks vaccinate their kids, don’t you? Do we need to go back to the pre-vaccine era before more vaccine-hesitant parents will start vaccinating their kids?
“I also warn them not to share their fears with their neighbors, because if too many people avoid the MMR, we’ll likely see the diseases increase significantly.”
“It is UNETHICAL to expect me to sacrifice my child for yours—especially when I know that sacrifice won’t even stop the disease from spreading. It’s time for people to stop touting their “moral superiority and selflessness” when it comes to this topic; because if you really understood how this all works, there would be nothing for you to be proud of.”
Melissa Floyd (she apparently does a podcast with Dr. Bob)
Here is where the misinformed consent comes in and ethics go out the window:
only if you say everything is a vaccine injury can you begin to imagine that you are sacrificing your child by getting them vaccinated
And for the record, few of us think that we are morally superior to anyone else for vaccinating and protecting our kids. We just understand that many anti-vaccine folks are victims of their cognitive biases and need to do more research. And we know that it is UNETHICAL for parents to sacrifice their kids to anti-vaccine propaganda.
Update: the medical examiner has ruled that Senator José Peralta, of Queens, passed away from natural causes, complications of acute promyelocytic leukemia.
Anti-vaccine folks are heavily pushing the idea that José Peralta, a New York State Senator, died as the result of getting a flu shot.
All of the same things? Exactly? Senator Peralta did not die of a severe allergic reaction. He died of sepsis.
While Senator Peralta did die several days after getting a flu shot, it appears that he had already been sick for several weeks. And no, that doesn’t mean that the flu shot made him even sicker.
“The senator would be disappointed to find that conspiracy theorists are using his death to forward their agenda by misrepresenting the facts.”
Chris Sosa on No Evidence New York Legislator Died from Flu Shot
New York State Sen. José Peralta had reportedly just gotten his flu shot at a public event, where he was encouraging others in his community to get protected with free flu shots.
Senator Jose Peralta partnered with a local hospital to help get members of his community free flu shots.
And while he did die about four days later, there is absolutely no reason to think that his getting a flu shot was connected to his death.
Anti-vaccine folks have no shame, as they not only don’t respect the privacy of Senator Peralta’s wife, children, family and friends, but also are using him to attack his legacy.
Of course, this is the method of operation of the modern anti-vaccine movement. They make folks think that anything and everything is a vaccine injury and they actually go out of their way to exploit people who have died.
